Shockwave for Erectile Dysfunction

More and more men are having shockwave therapy to fix their erectile dysfunction, either at a clinic or self-administered. This is a forum to for men to discuss what experiences they have had, what treatment they used, and what results they obtained.  The goal is to get men to share their ideas, trials, successes and failures in order to help other men working to improve their mojo as well.

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2/04/2019 8:17 am  #1


Hz, or, speed of shockwave generation question

Gents, I'm trying to determine the optimal Hz rate for the treatments. My readings indicate that the reason for success of shockwave therapy is that it causes cavitation. It is important that the device creates these tiny air bubbles and that they "pop" and regenerate as the waves are being created. It would seem that at too high a frequency, or Hz, there may not be time for the cavitation bubbles to "pop" and be recreated. 

That said, the higher the Hz, the quicker the treatment goes, which is nice. Also, it seems that many people here on the board, and the machine settings when you choose "professional" mode, kick the Hz higher. I'm not sure if this is done only because it completes the treatment faster, or because it is better?

Here are three excerpts on cavitation from shockwave, or eswt, devices:

Clinical Relevance
Prior ESWT studies have shown that tissues treated with sufficient quantities of acoustic sound waves undergo cavitation build-up, mechanotransduction, and ultimately, a biological alteration that “kick-starts” the healing response. Due to their different treatment indications and contra-indications rESWT devices cannot be equated to vibrating massage devices and should be used with due caution in clinical practice.

High-speed imaging of cavitation bubbles
High-speed imaging sequences for both the D-Actor 200 and the Swiss DolorClast revealed the
build-up of cavitation bubbles as soon as 10 μs following the pressure wave front, and cavitation maximum approximately 120 μs later (Fig 4). Both devices produced larger cavita-
tion bubbles at 1 Hz than at 15 Hz, irrespective of the devices’energy settings (Fig 5). Quantita-
tive analysis of the film sequences also showed that both devices generated more cavitation at
1 Hz than at 15 Hz, with cavitation persisting for approximately 1 ms (Fig 6)

(no real heading applies)
High frequencies do not seem advisable as cavitation bubbles may block the propagation of subsequent waves [10], and the maximum generated pressure seems to drop [12].
 

Last edited by HopefullD (2/04/2019 8:40 am)

 

2/05/2019 11:55 am  #2


Re: Hz, or, speed of shockwave generation question

Hey HopefullD,

That stuff about cavitation is really interesting. Could you send the the URL? If you do a 6000 pulse regimen at 1hz your talking about 100 minutes of treatment time.

 

2/05/2019 1:05 pm  #3


Re: Hz, or, speed of shockwave generation question

After posting, I did some add'l research and found a link on your blog that I followed, and then, reading in depth, noticed that the site specifically says to promote healing, as opposed to "destruction" of the tissue, you want higher frequencies. Read here: http://www.shockwavetherapy.education/index.php/theory/dosage

If you trust this link, it says to reduce the pressure (i.e.-the mj/mm to that lower number found in the studies it would seem), reduce the number of shots, and up the frequency. Sadly, I have been doing the EXACT OPPOSITE based on my intuition. So, I'm really wrong I guess...

An excerpt from the link:Tissue Healing:Berta et al. (2009) showed low to medium energy shockwave treatment induces much less cell destruction and more stimulation of cell proliferation. Wang et al. (2001, 2002) and Martini et al. (2003) found the same thing. Whether fibroblasts lived or died was influenced most by the number of shots much more than by energy level. There was also evidence of a suitable energy/shot number ratio to have a minor cytocidal effect. Shock waves had a dose-dependent destructive effect on cells in suspension, as well as having a dose-dependent stimulatory effect on cell proliferation. In addition, a significant increase in proliferation rate was observed with respect to the un-shocked cells (this is probably because of the interconnections through the integrins). In other words, even if you get cell damage some of the effects spill over into the surrounding cells improving healing. To just get healing use lower shock pressures and less shocks to an area.

 

     Thread Starter
 

2/05/2019 1:10 pm  #4


Re: Hz, or, speed of shockwave generation question

Dick, here is the link I originally read about cavitation with rESWT machines like ours:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/283305826_Radial_Shock_Wave_Devices_Generate_Cavitation

 

     Thread Starter
 

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